The Chinese Room Thought Experiment from Wikipedia
In my mind I'm not really qualified to be taken seriously about this, but I do have strong feelings about why Searles conclusion is wrong. I have not looked into criticisms of this very much except that Searles Chinese Room suffers from the "Homunculus Fallacy" in that it includes the problem it is trying to solve, or that the analogy is flawed. I also realized later in the day, after posting this, that it solves the mind-body problem.
In a nutshell the Chinese Room thought experiment was intended to express doubt about whether a machine could ever have understanding. It goes like this. John Searle is in a room with instructions that when someone passes in phrases in Chinese, he is to use his references to look up the corresponding reply and pass it out. His argument is that as long as he knows how to match the two phrases, he doesn't have to understand Chinese. A machine using a program doesn't have to understand chinese either.
I agree, but I also think that the analogy is flawed in that it doesn't go far enough. He's missing the representation of the link between the two phrases. His man is the link but the man needs to be broken down further into the individual actions that are involved. It needs to solve the problem of where do the rules come from that lead to the result of "Understanding"
My point is that if we make a list of the two sets of phrases, we can draw lines between them to connect them. These represent the rules. We don't really understand them but we can see the correlation. But how did the lines get there?
If we took each phrase and had visual representations of every nuance of each phrase, then we could mechanically look for similarities between the phrases and match them up. We might make mistakes, wrong inferences, but so does the mind. Consider the pictures individual properties of the representation of the phrase. But then where would the pictures come from?
We have to find a natural algorithm for the simple rules.
How this relates to the brain is that since the brain represents the world using an electrochemical storage and retrieval mechanism, and it stores this information all over the brain in no specific place, it must have pointers or some method analogous to computer hard drive technology of knowing where the next bit is and where the previous bit was. Electrons naturally travel from one potential to another, so there probably is an equivalent mechanism that relates to chemicals. When the brain gets input, it starts processing information, storing and retrieving information, making associations, presumably using a simple physical algorithm made up of chemical or electrical properties such as properties of attraction or similarities. Since the brain is a system of processes, these simpler systems would work together using this simple algorithm starting from the neuron and the smallest piece of information to make more complex representations by looking for similarities and associations to memories from experience. In this way, we result in the more complex illusion of consciousness. To test this all we need to do is to look at interactively less capable minds starting with humans and working our way back through species. The first step in this experiment should be a field trip to the local bar.
Wednesday, January 23, 2008
My Solution To Searles Chinese Room
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I haven't dived too deeply into replies to Searle, but the point you make is one I've heard often. With the translation book already written for them, the person in the room is just a flesh-and-blood finite-state transducer. You could build a simple FST out of tinker-toys. The "understanding" came in the writing of the book.
Although, I have to add that it seems like people tend to ask questions about "understanding", "intelligence" and "self-awareness" in machines and humans as if there's some specific gold standard for each or as if they should magically arise out of performing other tasks. Understanding symbols is a completely different task than manipulating symbols.
Hi b h!
Thanks for commenting. I'm pleasantly surprised and honored that you found this article! In my opinion, the properties of understanding are a set of sliding criteria, and when we get to the point when someone claims to have made machine with consciousness someone is going to criticize it using new criteria. I think that one day, these criteria will stretch into the domain of human consciousness and people will get to the point their debate logically creates doubt about the consciousness of mentally deficient humans. If Terry Schiavo was conscious, it shouldn't be too hard to make a machine conscious like that.
I'm still around. I was just going through finals, vacation, and application submission for a month or so there. I just happened to click through from DC yesterday.
I'm honestly surprised Searle's thought experiment has endured as a topic of discussion as long as it has. The setup seems so fundamentally flawed. He separates the machine and the software: if you did the equivalent for a human being, would the neural network that was left have any understanding?
Yeah the guy (Searle) is completely wrong in trying to defy the definition of artificial intelligence.
Hi Lee! I just found your blog.
The clearest explanation of where Searle goes wrong that I know of is in The Mind's I, edited by Douglas Hofstadter and Daniel Dennett. Hofstadter's conclusion is basically what b h (hi, b h!) has already said: given the conditions of the thought experiment, the "brain" (or computer) that does the translation is the pieces of paper, and the person in the room is just a transducer.
Searle has framed the conditions to make the problem seem real: by positing a person with a brain who does the busy work, and not going into detail about how incredibly complex these "pieces of paper" must be, he tries (perhaps unconsciously) to distract us into thinking that any ratiocination that is going on must be in the person's brain, not the pieces of paper, and since the person does not understand Chinese, the system of paper plus person cannot understand Chinese either. But here he is of course assuming what remains to be proven: that a computer, be it of silicon or paper, cannot think.
Hi zilch!
how'd you find it?
I set this blog up before I got serious about DC. I figured it would be my Plan B. I started another one called Reasonable Doubt About... which is supposed to be a mid point between this one and DC.
Hey Lee- it was easy, it's in your Blogger profile. And how can a blog be a "midpoint" between two other blogs- doesn't that imply that blogs can be flattened onto a linear scale, and all their information content represented by points along a single line? Of course, I do know some that could be, which shall remain nameless...
Hi Lee,
Once again I think you have applied your abilities to the lesser task. I presume that your attack on the Chinese room is linked to the old chestnut of brain, mind, consciousness and soul.
Perhaps the Chinese room analogy falls down on the basis of what the computer does. The Turing Test requires the AI to be indistinguishable from a real person in the conversation. In the Chinese Room analogy the AI is carrying out deterministic tasks - in the case on the manned room, following an instruction book. You and BH are right in the observation that the intelligence was in the programme – writing the book - not the execution.
In reality the Chinese room requires only to be able to execute the rules - true soldier material.
Based on deterministic decision making AI is conceptually easy to achieve – an exaggerated IF statement – the Chinese room.
However, once we get to judgemental decision making then AI becomes conceptually harder and the Turing Test becomes moot.
Conceptually we could (and to some extent do) programme an AI system to take in certain information weight it and make “judgements” based thereon – this is the way computers play chess – it is still deterministic.
Truly judgemental decision making requires a decision be make under conditions of uncertainty – again not a “weighted” calculation - but real uncertainty based on insufficient information.
Now I see no way of knowing (Turing Test) if the judgemental decisions being made are being made by a person throwing darts at options or by a computer picking options at random (or through some pseudo-logic process) or by a real person pondering the issue. The decisions cannot be tested as right or wrong – we don’t ourselves know the answer.
You suppose that as machines get smarter those of us who claim there is a difference will move the goal posts (a bit like apologetics?). So be on notice that meeting the Turing Test will not prove AI = human thought.
As an aside, it would be fun to ask the ideal AI system “Is there a God?” – I suspect the machine would be inclined to answer no, while many humans would answer yes.
Should you not focus on Searle saying “You cannot escape the presupposition of freewill. When you and I talk, or we order in a restaurant, or vote, we can only do these things on the supposition that we have a choice. We can't think away our own freedom.”
We have there a more important point to address than his Chinese room, and with it will learn more than from debunking that room.
Sala kahle - peace
Hi akakiwibear,
I am very happy to see you over here.
peace to you too!
Are you familiar with unconscious decision making? the brain science podcast has good review and interview with the author on this topic. I highly recommend the podcast and particularly the two shows about the book "on being certain".
here is the link Brain science podcast review of "on being certain"
be sure to listen to the next episode which is the interview with the author.
Hi Lee,
Yes I am aware of the unconscious decision making concepts.
Not sure though that referring me to Burton in any way settles the question of freewill.
Perhaps it did for you though.
Sala kahle - peace
it doesn't settle the question, but it does throw doubt on the dichotomy of good and evil people. There are just dangerous and not-dangerous people, like dogs. ;-)
There are just dangerous and not-dangerous people, like dogs -
Very good, so, since God loves all people equally you have just answered the question of how God can love evil people - there are none, just bad dogs.
Sala kahle -peace
Hi akakiwibear,
which god would that be? Over here, I don't stipulate gods, I say that unless you can show me that their existence is more likely than not, then they, spirits and souls are highly unlikely and not worthy of consideration.
Unverifiable or unfalsifiable information on this blog is considered irrelevant and I will dismiss it out of hand.
hi akakiwibear,
if you want to discuss god then i have another blog intended to be a midpoint between this blog and DC called casuallogically thinking about religion.
I'll post the first article over there and I'd be honored if you'd be my first commenter.
Hi Lee, I apologise if I offended the sensitivities of this blog. Heaven (oops there I go again) - heaven forbid that we discuss anything other than proven fact!
Nah ... too boring! However as you have professed an interest in the brain/soul topic you may be interested in joining discussion on the latest post on my blog
Sala kahle - peace
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